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Post by Mr_Monster_Munch on Jul 17, 2014 8:51:41 GMT -6
It's just so... different. I'm getting the same vibe like I got with Electric Red and Blue Superman or that Heros Reborn story. They are running out of ideas so instead of creating good stories they focus on revamping the characters themselves. I see what you're saying. Marvel seem less and less interested about promoting great stories, and instead choose to focus on simply switching up the cast or creating a new team of heroes, even if most of the heroes on the team aren't newcomers but old characters in different costumes. Thing is, aesthetics are a massive part of comics and are easy to market. Simply drawing a new Iron Man suit is enough to at least slightly intrigue most Marvel fans, if it looks badass enough. But I don't agree with how much Marvel are focusing on this, whilst they focus less and less on telling great new stories. Sure, most stories aren't going to be anything new, but even Hickman's Avengers was a book that was more of a change up of the teams than a significant development in the mythos. I noticed this trend become very prominent a few years ago. Hickman's New Avengers was heavily marketed, but pretty much only as a new team up of old characters. We got X-Force books that again, were promoted pretty much as just a new mix of characters. Then post-AvX, we got Uncanny Avengers, which again was pretty much just marketed as a mixture of X-Men and Avengers. And all the diversity nonsense that was preached in the book went quickly ignored after the initial hype. And now we have this new team of Avengers, and it's happening all over again. Marvel big up how important these books are, only for them to be scrapped in favour of something else, not twelve issues later. Surely, Marvel fans must know by now how pathetic the substance is behind the beautiful, aesthetic marketing. Marvel are even corrupt enough to get the American public all hyped and bickering over race and colour. How many times are we going to fall for these silly marketing tactics? We want stories. Not a constant re-marketing of diversity and the simple job of mixing different heroes together. The American comic book culture are like lemmings for this sort of stuff. A front cover of a new mix of characters is enough for the majority of them to believe this is a significant turning point for Marvel, when it's actually just the same marketing strategy that's used every six months to re-promote the MU. I liked that article and I agree with most of it, especially the psychology/influence/learning-development/inspiration stuff. But it's not entirely true. Despite what a lot of people say, there are still lots of unique stories that haven't been told yet. I have a few unique story ideas myself that I hope will make me rich some day, but without me revealing those huge secret projects to anyone who might want to steal them, look at already existing stories like Django Unchained. That story is totally, totally unique. No other story comes close to what that tale is about. It's a truly unique story. Trust me, there's still plenty of unique, properly new stories still left to tell. And it should be every writer's ambition to come up with one. |
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Post by wyokid on Jul 17, 2014 13:07:13 GMT -6
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Post by RockyBanks on Jul 17, 2014 13:28:45 GMT -6
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Post by thecrimson on Jul 17, 2014 15:09:57 GMT -6
I liked that article and I agree with most of it, especially the psychology/influence/learning-development/inspiration stuff. But it's not entirely true. Despite what a lot of people say, there are still lots of unique stories that haven't been told yet. I have a few unique story ideas myself that I hope will make me rich some day, but without me revealing those huge secret projects to anyone who might want to steal them, look at already existing stories like Django Unchained. That story is totally, totally unique. No other story comes close to what that tale is about. It's a truly unique story. Trust me, there's still plenty of unique, properly new stories still left to tell. And it should be every writer's ambition to come up with one. I think it's more about putting different spins on things we've seen before. There's still only so many ways you can spin a tale, though. And today's writers are at a disadvantage of not being born countless years ago. Any of my favorite books, I could most likely find another book with a similar premise or one that uses the same elements. I believe the guy behind the article compared it to writers all having access to the same Legos? That's why I'm not one of those fans who whines when some comic plot is slightly similar to another. |
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Post by wyokid on Jul 17, 2014 15:23:18 GMT -6
Such a pretty face playing Karen Page. It's going to be hard to watch. So much pain caused by one woman. |
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Post by Mr_Monster_Munch on Jul 17, 2014 16:33:59 GMT -6
I think it's more about putting different spins on things we've seen before. There's still only so many ways you can spin a tale, though. And today's writers are at a disadvantage of not being born countless years ago. Any of my favorite books, I could most likely find another book with a similar premise or one that uses the same elements. I believe the guy behind the article compared it to writers all having access to the same Legos? That's why I'm not one of those fans who whines when some comic plot is slightly similar to another. Of course, we all have out own tastes, but there are still plenty of unique stories left to tell. Django Unchained, a black cowboy on a horse during the Slave Trade in the Wild West is one thing, but making it about saving his wife and riding off in the sunset with her when there's all those titanic struggles and improbabilities that stand in his way; Proof that even quests can still be completely unique. And there are unique superhero stories still left untold too. Irredeemable only came out a decade ago. And I have some own ideas that I seriously can't share with anyone. I agree that there are limited ways to twist a certain story, but what about coming up with new stories. And quests are always fun. Stories don't have to be unique to be fun, but reusing the same marketing strategy every six months to re-promote the MU is a bit silly, and even sillier that such a huge fanbase don't notice it's the same thing constantly being spoon fed. Spinning old stories in different ways are great, but Marvel's big promos over the past few years have been horrendously milked. Edit - It's just changing the characters around every six months. |
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Post by thecrimson on Jul 17, 2014 18:14:24 GMT -6
I never realized this was almost a thing.
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Post by Spiderx3000 on Jul 17, 2014 19:08:40 GMT -6
I never realized this was almost a thing. I remember hearing about this. Probably for the best it was cancelled. |
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Post by wyokid on Jul 17, 2014 19:09:32 GMT -6
I never realized this was almost a thing. This reminds me |
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Post by Wolverine12 on Jul 17, 2014 23:36:05 GMT -6
Why do they keep getting rid of all the most popular characters at Marvel? Thor and Cap are still around First, thanks for continuing with the Wierd Al vids, I love it. As for what I quoted, Marvel got rid of Peter Parker, now Wolverine, and Cap isn't Cap any more, Thor isn't Thor and something is going on with Iron Man (not sure what so if it's just Tony in a new suit that doesn't apply here). I guess I'm just a sucker for the classics. |
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Post by wyokid on Jul 18, 2014 6:44:34 GMT -6
Thor and Cap are still around First, thanks for continuing with the Wierd Al vids, I love it. As for what I quoted, Marvel got rid of Peter Parker, now Wolverine, and Cap isn't Cap any more, Thor isn't Thor and something is going on with Iron Man (not sure what so if it's just Tony in a new suit that doesn't apply here). I guess I'm just a sucker for the classics. While we wait for today's video here's Weird Al arguing with Fox news Tony will still be in the suit. How sane he will be is up for debate. |
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Post by Mr_Monster_Munch on Jul 18, 2014 7:38:58 GMT -6
I never realized this was almost a thing. Yeah, it got canned about five or six years ago after being in "development hell" for more than two years. It was costing loads of money to make and the developers couldn't quite figure out the mechanics, constantly going through various iterations. I remember some of the test footage of that game looking amazing. There was a third-person view Cap vs Hulk fight in this huge New York map. Then, at one point, everything was scrapped and transformed into an FPS brawler. Then the project was canned about six months later. I hope to see a similar game in development soon. Apparently the new consoles are really easy to develop for, so fingers crossed the 3D Marvel fighting game gets resurrected one day. |
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Post by wyokid on Jul 18, 2014 8:20:03 GMT -6
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Post by Mr_Monster_Munch on Jul 18, 2014 14:56:29 GMT -6
Why do they keep getting rid of all the most popular characters at Marvel? I'm not quite sure if this is a rhetorical question or not, but death, resurrection and returning to former glory is a profitable cycle of marketing schemes that will gain money from even the majority of the fans who realise these schemes and disagree with them. Marvel promote the death of an iconic character, and then promote their resurrection and/or return to glory a year or two later. First, thanks for continuing with the Wierd Al vids, I love it. As for what I quoted, Marvel got rid of Peter Parker, now Wolverine, and Cap isn't Cap any more, Thor isn't Thor and something is going on with Iron Man (not sure what so if it's just Tony in a new suit that doesn't apply here). I guess I'm just a sucker for the classics. And Marvel know that you're a sucker for the classic characters. That's why their resurrections and/or come backs are a strategy used to get people like you to buy their new #1s. We vote with our wallets. For the record, I agree with everything you've said. |
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Post by thecrimson on Jul 18, 2014 15:13:56 GMT -6
If I have the money in the next few months, I'll most likely be adding Captain America, Thor, and a few other titles to my list. Are any of you doing the same?
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Post by Spiderx3000 on Jul 18, 2014 15:53:54 GMT -6
If I have the money in the next few months, I'll most likely be adding Captain America, Thor, and a few other titles to my list. Are any of you doing the same? Nah. None of these titles interest me. We don't know much either. |
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Post by thecrimson on Jul 18, 2014 16:17:50 GMT -6
If I have the money in the next few months, I'll most likely be adding Captain America, Thor, and a few other titles to my list. Are any of you doing the same? Nah. None of these titles interest me. We don't know much either. Then I change what I said to "I will check out their first issues." |
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Post by Mr_Monster_Munch on Jul 18, 2014 16:36:39 GMT -6
If I have the money in the next few months, I'll most likely be adding Captain America, Thor, and a few other titles to my list. Are any of you doing the same? I'm mildly interested in picking up Avengers if there's a good story to it. And I'm eagerly anticipating Jason Aaron's Thor Omnibus. |
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Post by wyokid on Jul 18, 2014 17:04:56 GMT -6
If I have the money in the next few months, I'll most likely be adding Captain America, Thor, and a few other titles to my list. Are any of you doing the same? Already added them to my pulllist today. Captain America has been awesome so far and Remender writes a really good Falcon, Tom Taylor is an incredible writer and with Tony turning bad I know he'll do great work with that, and Thor is my favorite Disney Princess. Gotta get those pre-orders in though. Not only does it help Marvel, but you're guaranteed a copy and it helps so you retailer doesn't over order. |
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Post by thecrimson on Jul 18, 2014 18:17:26 GMT -6
If I have the money in the next few months, I'll most likely be adding Captain America, Thor, and a few other titles to my list. Are any of you doing the same? Already added them to my pulllist today. Captain America has been awesome so far and Remender writes a really good Falcon, Tom Taylor is an incredible writer and with Tony turning bad I know he'll do great work with that, and Thor is my favorite Disney Princess. Gotta get those pre-orders in though. Not only does it help Marvel, but you're guaranteed a copy and it helps so you retailer doesn't over order. If only I had a retailer. I just read on Comixology. |
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Post by wyokid on Jul 18, 2014 18:45:51 GMT -6
Already added them to my pulllist today. Captain America has been awesome so far and Remender writes a really good Falcon, Tom Taylor is an incredible writer and with Tony turning bad I know he'll do great work with that, and Thor is my favorite Disney Princess. Gotta get those pre-orders in though. Not only does it help Marvel, but you're guaranteed a copy and it helps so you retailer doesn't over order. If only I had a retailer. I just read on Comixology.  |
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Post by thecrimson on Jul 18, 2014 18:50:37 GMT -6
If only I had a retailer. I just read on Comixology.  |
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Post by Wolverine12 on Jul 19, 2014 2:49:41 GMT -6
Why do they keep getting rid of all the most popular characters at Marvel? I'm not quite sure if this is a rhetorical question or not, but death, resurrection and returning to former glory is a profitable cycle of marketing schemes that will gain money from even the majority of the fans who realise these schemes and disagree with them. Marvel promote the death of an iconic character, and then promote their resurrection and/or return to glory a year or two later. First, thanks for continuing with the Wierd Al vids, I love it. As for what I quoted, Marvel got rid of Peter Parker, now Wolverine, and Cap isn't Cap any more, Thor isn't Thor and something is going on with Iron Man (not sure what so if it's just Tony in a new suit that doesn't apply here). I guess I'm just a sucker for the classics. And Marvel know that you're a sucker for the classic characters. That's why their resurrections and/or come backs are a strategy used to get people like you to buy their new #1s. We vote with our wallets. For the record, I agree with everything you've said. Yeah it was a rhetorical question. I am aware of the death and rebirth cycle of comics but it feels like Marvel has been going to that well A LOT over the last two years. You'd think I would be used to it since I'm such a big fan of the UU but now that its happening in 616 it just feels like overkill. I also agree about voting with my wallet. After the Death of Wolverine and all it's tie in's have run their course I'm not sure what I'll be picking up from Marvel outside of whatever UU titles are around. I'll keep buying Uncanny Avengers as long as Remender is on it, and I'll probably keep getting some X-Books but the other Avengers titles don't appeal to me. Edit: I wanted to say something about buying the new #1's of a book. I'm not really someone who cares if a title relaunched with a new #1 every year or two but what will happen is that Marvel will be getting less money from me while Logan is dead. His titles won't be there for me to purchase and as I said above the there aren't really any upcoming books that I plan on adding to my pull list. I buy every Wolverine title that Marvel puts out except for when they do the all ages ones. So I won't be buying Wolverine, Savage Wolverine, and possibly not Wolverine and the X-Men. I know I'm not the only reader who will go this route either so it seems like Marvel will be losing out on some money. I guess we'll just have to wait to see the sales figures  |
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Post by thecrimson on Jul 19, 2014 4:27:51 GMT -6
I'm not quite sure if this is a rhetorical question or not, but death, resurrection and returning to former glory is a profitable cycle of marketing schemes that will gain money from even the majority of the fans who realise these schemes and disagree with them. Marvel promote the death of an iconic character, and then promote their resurrection and/or return to glory a year or two later. And Marvel know that you're a sucker for the classic characters. That's why their resurrections and/or come backs are a strategy used to get people like you to buy their new #1s. We vote with our wallets. For the record, I agree with everything you've said. Yeah it was a rhetorical question. I am aware of the death and rebirth cycle of comics but it feels like Marvel has been going to that well A LOT over the last two years. You'd think I would be used to it since I'm such a big fan of the UU but now that its happening in 616 it just feels like overkill. I also agree about voting with my wallet. After the Death of Wolverine and all it's tie in's have run their course I'm not sure what I'll be picking up from Marvel outside of whatever UU titles are around. I'll keep buying Uncanny Avengers as long as Remender is on it, and I'll probably keep getting some X-Books but the other Avengers titles don't appeal to me. Edit: I wanted to say something about buying the new #1's of a book. I'm not really someone who cares if a title relaunched with a new #1 every year or two but what will happen is that Marvel will be getting less money from me while Logan is dead. His titles won't be there for me to purchase and as I said above the there aren't really any upcoming books that I plan on adding to my pull list. I buy every Wolverine title that Marvel puts out except for when they do the all ages ones. So I won't be buying Wolverine, Savage Wolverine, and possibly not Wolverine and the X-Men. I know I'm not the only reader who will go this route either so it seems like Marvel will be losing out on some money. I guess we'll just have to wait to see the sales figures If Wolverine is dead, why would there be Wolverine and Savage Wolverine to buy? I'm sorry if that's a dense question but it's 5 AM here and I haven't slept. |
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Post by Wolverine12 on Jul 19, 2014 8:05:33 GMT -6
Yeah it was a rhetorical question. I am aware of the death and rebirth cycle of comics but it feels like Marvel has been going to that well A LOT over the last two years. You'd think I would be used to it since I'm such a big fan of the UU but now that its happening in 616 it just feels like overkill. I also agree about voting with my wallet. After the Death of Wolverine and all it's tie in's have run their course I'm not sure what I'll be picking up from Marvel outside of whatever UU titles are around. I'll keep buying Uncanny Avengers as long as Remender is on it, and I'll probably keep getting some X-Books but the other Avengers titles don't appeal to me. Edit: I wanted to say something about buying the new #1's of a book. I'm not really someone who cares if a title relaunched with a new #1 every year or two but what will happen is that Marvel will be getting less money from me while Logan is dead. His titles won't be there for me to purchase and as I said above the there aren't really any upcoming books that I plan on adding to my pull list. I buy every Wolverine title that Marvel puts out except for when they do the all ages ones. So I won't be buying Wolverine, Savage Wolverine, and possibly not Wolverine and the X-Men. I know I'm not the only reader who will go this route either so it seems like Marvel will be losing out on some money. I guess we'll just have to wait to see the sales figures If Wolverine is dead, why would there be Wolverine and Savage Wolverine to buy? I'm sorry if that's a dense question but it's 5 AM here and I haven't slept. What I meant was I won't be buying it because it's not available, but I won't be spending the money I would have spent on those titles on other Marvel books. Granted that could change if Marvel releases a new book that interests me, but the new titles, and the new teams (as in actual characters not writers and artists) that they have announced don't interest me enough to purchase them. |
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Post by thecrimson on Jul 19, 2014 16:24:05 GMT -6
If Wolverine is dead, why would there be Wolverine and Savage Wolverine to buy? I'm sorry if that's a dense question but it's 5 AM here and I haven't slept. What I meant was I won't be buying it because it's not available, but I won't be spending the money I would have spent on those titles on other Marvel books. Granted that could change if Marvel releases a new book that interests me, but the new titles, and the new teams (as in actual characters not writers and artists) that they have announced don't interest me enough to purchase them. Are you getting Logan Legacy or whatever? |
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Post by Mr_Monster_Munch on Jul 19, 2014 17:34:41 GMT -6
Yeah it was a rhetorical question. I am aware of the death and rebirth cycle of comics but it feels like Marvel has been going to that well A LOT over the last two years. You'd think I would be used to it since I'm such a big fan of the UU but now that its happening in 616 it just feels like overkill. I also agree about voting with my wallet. After the Death of Wolverine and all it's tie in's have run their course I'm not sure what I'll be picking up from Marvel outside of whatever UU titles are around. I'll keep buying Uncanny Avengers as long as Remender is on it, and I'll probably keep getting some X-Books but the other Avengers titles don't appeal to me. Edit: I wanted to say something about buying the new #1's of a book. I'm not really someone who cares if a title relaunched with a new #1 every year or two but what will happen is that Marvel will be getting less money from me while Logan is dead. His titles won't be there for me to purchase and as I said above the there aren't really any upcoming books that I plan on adding to my pull list. I buy every Wolverine title that Marvel puts out except for when they do the all ages ones. So I won't be buying Wolverine, Savage Wolverine, and possibly not Wolverine and the X-Men. I know I'm not the only reader who will go this route either so it seems like Marvel will be losing out on some money. I guess we'll just have to wait to see the sales figures Yeah, I didn't think of that. That's a good point. Wolverine is in a lot of high selling books and has a good handful of solos. When he's killed off, there will likely be a financial void that will need filling. Maybe Marvel think they can get more money from his inevitable big return than from all his continuing solo titles combined, potentially saving them money, but with so many Wolverine books coming to an end for a reasonably substantial period of time, I very much doubt his big return will be able to make up the lost profits. Perhaps it's just a case of providing Wolverine with a boost of fan interest because Wolverine sales aren't quite as strong as they used to be. I don't know. But it certainly doesn't seem like a good business decision to kill off one of Marvel's most popular characters who has a good handful of successful ongoing solos constantly making Marvel a nice profit. What will they replace him with? Will X-23 get more focus now? (I don't believe in the sales figures because they're very loose estimates based on how many orders the retailer has asked for, which is most often too many because the retailer doesn't want to run out when there's high demand for that item. Not only are they loose estimations, but those estimations are based on the retailer's presumed high demand of an upcoming comic and not on the actual amount sold, even though most issue collectors don't pre-order their comics, so there's not much legitimacy in the amount a retailer orders in at all. I know Plawsky loves using statistics, but the system is so inaccurate, it's very likely the 4th highest selling issue could actually be the 12th. Instead of calling it Diamond Comic Book Sales they should call it Diamond Comic Book Order Supplies, seeing as it's not actually based on sales. I know these retailers order based on demand, but when you have estimated sales based on the estimations of how much the retailer has ordered, (an estimation of an even bigger estimation) you see that there is very little truth as to how many units have actually been sold. Retailers even throw out a lot of comics, and quite often too. But nevertheless, I like to check out the "comic book sales" every now and then to see how well a comic is selling, because the sales charts do often provide a reasonably good indication of a book's success. But it does make you wonder whether the Top 10 books would be any less accurate if you just jumbled them up. ) |
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Post by spock on Jul 19, 2014 18:09:29 GMT -6
If I have the money in the next few months, I'll most likely be adding Captain America, Thor, and a few other titles to my list. Are any of you doing the same? Thor is staying on my pull list as long as Jason Aaron is on the book. I'm passing on All-New Captain America, but I would pick it up if there weren't so many other books I'm more interested in. And his costume is atrocious. I'll give Superior Iron Man one issue to impress me, because, while both the creative team and premise are solid, I don't like 616 Tony very much. Under normal circumstances I would pick up Gerry Duggan's Hulk, but I chose the Edge of Spider-Verse tie-ins instead. Bucky Barnes: The Winter Soldier has three issues to earn a spot on my pull list. I love the character and creative team, but I need to be sold on the premise. I usually prefer espionage stories for Bucky, so this could go either way for me. I don't think I forgot any, but if I did please tell me what it was. |
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Post by thecrimson on Jul 19, 2014 18:16:18 GMT -6
If I have the money in the next few months, I'll most likely be adding Captain America, Thor, and a few other titles to my list. Are any of you doing the same? Thor is staying on my pull list as long as Jason Aaron is on the book. I'm passing on All-New Captain America, but I would pick it up if there weren't so many other books I'm more interested in. And his costume is atrocious. I'll give Superior Iron Man one issue to impress me, because, while both the creative team and premise are solid, I don't like 616 Tony very much. Under normal circumstances I would pick up Gerry Duggan's Hulk, but I chose the Edge of Spider-Verse tie-ins instead. Bucky Barnes: The Winter Soldier has three issues to earn a spot on my pull list. I love the character and creative team, but I need to be sold on the premise. I usually prefer espionage stories for Bucky, so this could go either way for me. I don't think I forgot any, but if I did please tell me what it was. If I miss out on Spider-Verse I will cry manly tears. What's wrong with Falcon-Cap? |
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Post by spock on Jul 19, 2014 22:03:02 GMT -6
Thor is staying on my pull list as long as Jason Aaron is on the book. I'm passing on All-New Captain America, but I would pick it up if there weren't so many other books I'm more interested in. And his costume is atrocious. I'll give Superior Iron Man one issue to impress me, because, while both the creative team and premise are solid, I don't like 616 Tony very much. Under normal circumstances I would pick up Gerry Duggan's Hulk, but I chose the Edge of Spider-Verse tie-ins instead. Bucky Barnes: The Winter Soldier has three issues to earn a spot on my pull list. I love the character and creative team, but I need to be sold on the premise. I usually prefer espionage stories for Bucky, so this could go either way for me. I don't think I forgot any, but if I did please tell me what it was. If I miss out on Spider-Verse I will cry manly tears. What's wrong with Falcon-Cap? The costume or the character? |
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