|
|
Post by thecrimson on May 26, 2014 20:13:04 GMT -6
And yet, everybody was okay with it when it happend to Nick Fury. For the record, I agree with Wyokid but since there are so few minorities represented I'm more comfortable with the fact of making the Human Torch Black then making the Black Panther White. (Because this seems a rather lazy way of writing ... instead of coming up with some new and interesting characters that will appeal to minorities, why not just take some characters that people already find interesting and just make them minorities?!) Hasslehoff is who I think of when someone says Nick Fury :# How about a Blue Marvel film? I find it ridiculous to change the race of a character. They're just trying to reach a quota and instead of using an ACTUAL black character they're taking a character who's characteristic is that they are white and making them not white. People get all up in arms when they change a black character to a white character but cheer when the opposite happens even thought it's the same damn thing. If you took a black man and changed him to be white (or vice versa) in real life his entire life would be different. He'd be a completely different person. They've done that? |
|
|
|
Post by spock on May 26, 2014 20:13:38 GMT -6
Is making the Human Torch black the same as making Black Panther white? I'd say it's not really the same, but I was in an argument with someone who said it was. It's not at all. The Human Torch being white has nothing to do with his character and doesn't matter. On the other hand, Black Panther's race is an important part of his character, since he's the King of Wakanda, an isolated African nation. For instance, the reason why I'm so pissed off about the new Wally West isn't because of his race (which doesn't matter to his character), it's because he's a completely different character with the same name as a character that I love. |
|
|
|
Post by thecrimson on May 26, 2014 20:16:26 GMT -6
Is making the Human Torch black the same as making Black Panther white? I'd say it's not really the same, but I was in an argument with someone who said it was. It's not at all. The Human Torch being white has nothing to do with his character and doesn't matter. On the other hand, Black Panther's race is an important part of his character, since he's the King of Wakanda, an isolated African nation. I said the same, but this guy countered with, "What? There's no white people in Africa? Wakanda can't be a mixed nation?" |
|
|
|
Post by wyokid on May 26, 2014 21:41:18 GMT -6
@ SinxIs making the Human Torch black the same as making Black Panther white? I'd say it's not really the same, but I was in an argument with someone who said it was. It's not at all. The Human Torch being white has nothing to do with his character and doesn't matter. On the other hand, Black Panther's race is an important part of his character, since he's the King of Wakanda, an isolated African nation. For instance, the reason why I'm so pissed off about the new Wally West isn't because of his race (which doesn't matter to his character), it's because he's a completely different character with the same name as a character that I love. Tell that to the people bitching every time DC accidentally colors a minority white. |
|
|
|
Post by jer on May 27, 2014 0:07:29 GMT -6
And yet, everybody was okay with it when it happend to Nick Fury. For the record, I agree with Wyokid but since there are so few minorities represented I'm more comfortable with the fact of making the Human Torch Black then making the Black Panther White. (Because this seems a rather lazy way of writing ... instead of coming up with some new and interesting characters that will appeal to minorities, why not just take some characters that people already find interesting and just make them minorities?!) Hasslehoff is who I think of when someone says Nick Fury :# How about a Blue Marvel film? I find it ridiculous to change the race of a character. They're just trying to reach a quota and instead of using an ACTUAL black character they're taking a character who's characteristic is that they are white and making them not white. People get all up in arms when they change a black character to a white character but cheer when the opposite happens even thought it's the same damn thing. If you took a black man and changed him to be white (or vice versa) in real life his entire life would be different. He'd be a completely different person. You're probably the only one. LOL And No. I would rather have an Icon film then a Blue Marvel film. Or better yet, instead of some superman knockoff why not just make a great Superman film? |
|
|
|
Post by jer on May 27, 2014 0:16:19 GMT -6
It's not at all. The Human Torch being white has nothing to do with his character and doesn't matter. On the other hand, Black Panther's race is an important part of his character, since he's the King of Wakanda, an isolated African nation. I said the same, but this guy countered with, "What? There's no white people in Africa? Wakanda can't be a mixed nation?" No white people in Africa? Three of my old professors taught Biology and Chemistry abroad and they just happened to be White. That's pretty fun. |
|
|
|
Post by wyokid on May 27, 2014 0:22:10 GMT -6
Hasslehoff is who I think of when someone says Nick Fury :# How about a Blue Marvel film? I find it ridiculous to change the race of a character. They're just trying to reach a quota and instead of using an ACTUAL black character they're taking a character who's characteristic is that they are white and making them not white. People get all up in arms when they change a black character to a white character but cheer when the opposite happens even thought it's the same damn thing. If you took a black man and changed him to be white (or vice versa) in real life his entire life would be different. He'd be a completely different person. You're probably the only one. LOL And No. I would rather have an Icon film then a Blue Marvel film. Or better yet, instead of some superman knockoff why not just make a great Superman film? Now I know you didn't just call Blue Marvel a Superman knockoff. |
|
|
|
Post by RockyBanks on May 27, 2014 6:58:13 GMT -6
Took the family out of town for Memorial Day weekend, didn't get a chance to see DOFP. Hearing mostly negatives from my friends and from my Comic Book Guy, which surprises me given the rave reviews it's getting in the press.
|
|
|
|
Post by thecrimson on May 27, 2014 8:28:18 GMT -6
Took the family out of town for Memorial Day weekend, didn't get a chance to see DOFP. Hearing mostly negatives from my friends and from my Comic Book Guy, which surprises me given the rave reviews it's getting in the press. It redeemed Fox's X-Men universe for me. |
|
|
|
Post by wyokid on May 27, 2014 8:35:20 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by Mr_Monster_Munch on May 27, 2014 8:36:47 GMT -6
Image and appearances will always be important because we take in so much more information through our eyes than anything else. Visual understanding is always going to be more effective than any other kind of understanding. So changing a character's appearance is always going to be important, and so changing a character's ethnicity is obviously going to create fan backlash because it is important to the character. Why? Because fans want to see their favourite characters as they are meant to be. Not some alternate take. Of course image is important to every character. Saying that changing a character's appearance doesn't effect the character is wrong. It's a very important aspect of any character. And actually changing a character's ethnicity is an extreme example of that. It's not an issue of racism. It's simply about depicting the character the way he/she "should" be depicted, as it is how they have always been presented. Otherwise, the character becomes just an alternate take. And I for one want to see the actual characters I read about on the big screen, not an alternate version of them. Of course, every movie adaption is technically an alternate take, but changing a character's appearance, especially their ethnicity, is simply not being faithful to the character's lore, and is further establishing the perception of them being an alternate take instead of the actual character. If FOX want to do a Black Johnny Storm, that's their choice, but that won't be the actual Johnny Storm, just like a White Black Panther isn't actually the real Black Panther.
And it's completely bias to suggest it's ok for white characters to have their ethnicity changed but it isn't ok for Black characters like the Black Panther to have their ethnicity changed. That's quite a ridiculous connotation to make.
Bearing in mind that I'm using the word "wrong" as a subjective context, it is just as wrong to change Johnny Storm into a Black guy, as it is to change Black Panther into a White guy, just as it is if a Spider-Man movie had Mary-Jane Watson in it and didn't make her a red head, or if Gwen Stacey wasn't blonde. It's all the same. Does red hair effect MJ's character? Not one bit. But it still wouldn't really be MJ, because MJ is supposed to have red hair. Just like Johnny Storm is supposed to be Caucasian/White and just as Black Panther is supposed be a Black African. Image and all the aesthetics that come with it are important to every character. Even to real people. If you were to radically change your appearance, your friends would most likely see you differently, as you would be almost unrecognisable to how you once were.
|
|
|
|
Post by RockyBanks on May 27, 2014 8:39:03 GMT -6
Most of the complaints I've heard have been about its lack of continuity with the other X-Men films. I can't say I'm surprised, though, because the X-Men films have been screwing up their continuity since day one. Soooooo you kinda have to take it with a grain of salt.
|
|
|
|
Post by jer on May 27, 2014 8:44:52 GMT -6
I had to think about it, but yes! "The Last Airbender" Movie. |
|
|
|
Post by Mr_Monster_Munch on May 27, 2014 8:47:12 GMT -6
Are we still calling non-Caucasian people minorities? That's not very pragmatic. Johnny Storm is blonde, but most people aren't, so technically he already is a minority. He has superpowers, which is unique, thus making him a minority. You know, as opposed to the majority?
|
|
|
|
Post by jer on May 27, 2014 8:50:00 GMT -6
Now I know you didn't just call Blue Marvel a Superman knockoff. How is he not? He's the most powerful Superhero in the Marvel Universe and probably one of the smartest too besides the fact that he's African American and an actual human: his powerlevels, brains, abilities and skills seems to be up there with Superman. |
|
|
|
Post by Mr_Monster_Munch on May 27, 2014 9:05:13 GMT -6
On the subject of Superman archetypes, I would LOVE to see an Irredeemable movie. The Plutonian is the perfect example of how anyone would be if they had Superman's powers, being able to hear the agony of people suffering all over the globe at every second of the day. It actually makes Superman look very selfish, sitting at his desk at work typing on his computer about problems but not solving them. How does that guy sleep at night, when the extreme suffering in which he could easily put a stop to is constantly ringing in his ears? It's a level of responsibility that would send anyone mad. And yet, Superman sleeps peacefully, knowing that innocent lives he could save are being killed. Let's not bullshit the public, let's give them a proper Superman story, let's give them an Irredeemable movie.  |
|
|
|
Post by wyokid on May 27, 2014 9:34:37 GMT -6
Michael Bay Wants To Do An NGE Film Now I know you didn't just call Blue Marvel a Superman knockoff. How is he not? He's the most powerful Superhero in the Marvel Universe and probably one of the smartest too besides the fact that he's African American and an actual human: his powerlevels, brains, abilities and skills seems to be up there with Superman. I've never read his solo, but Mighty Avengers makes it pretty clear that while his power set may be similar he is not like Superman.
|
|
|
|
Post by jer on May 27, 2014 10:02:47 GMT -6
I've never read his solo, but Mighty Avengers makes it pretty clear that while his power set may be similar he is not like Superman. Funny, I've read his solo but not Mighty Avengers and they make it pretty clear that he's a Superman-figure that's lost hope in humanity. |
|
|
|
Post by Mr_Monster_Munch on May 27, 2014 10:08:51 GMT -6
Tell that to the people bitching every time DC accidentally colors a minority white. I'm a minority and I'm White. |
|
|
|
Post by jer on May 27, 2014 10:24:54 GMT -6
On the subject of Superman archetypes, I would LOVE to see an Irredeemable movie. The Plutonian is the perfect example of how anyone would be if they had Superman's powers, being able to hear the agony of people suffering all over the globe at every second of the day. It actually makes Superman look very selfish, sitting at his desk at work typing on his computer about problems but not solving them. How does that guy sleep at night, when the extreme suffering in which he could easily put a stop to is constantly ringing in his ears? It's a level of responsibility that would send anyone mad. And yet, Superman sleeps peacefully, knowing that innocent lives he could save are being killed. Let's not bullshit the public, let's give them a proper Superman story, let's give them an Irredeemable movie. See I hate this kindof thinking. The Plutonian and Superman are different but only because of the level of s**t that has happened to the Plutonian rather then Superman. His adopted parents didn't love him. His girlfriend went berserk and ratted him out. Heck the man couldn't even have sex without killing someone whereas Superman has enough control over his powers and abilities to make sweet sweet love to Lois Lane without killing her. (Lana might be in that bag too) Anywho, I think a much more realistic interpretation of the character would be "Greatest American Hero" or "Superior" I don't even have to go that far, Smallville is doing a pretty good job of realistic showing how Superman would operate in our modern world. Heck, in one episode where Lois got Clark's powers she was going crazy listening to everybody's problems and Clark had to talk her down; that's when Lois realized how many quick decision Clark had to make on whether or not to break out the super suit and save someone. Superman has the city's entire emergency plans and response times memorize. Still though, listening to all that would drive someone mad. While I can see how a much more realistic Superman would operate. I don't think I can just sit back and accept an all powerful being, listening to all the woes of humanity without going a little insane. |
|
|
|
Post by jer on May 27, 2014 10:27:10 GMT -6
Tell that to the people bitching every time DC accidentally colors a minority white. I'm a minority and I'm White. Are you a Ginger Kid?  |
|
|
|
Post by Mr_Monster_Munch on May 27, 2014 10:51:17 GMT -6
On the subject of Superman archetypes, I would LOVE to see an Irredeemable movie. The Plutonian is the perfect example of how anyone would be if they had Superman's powers, being able to hear the agony of people suffering all over the globe at every second of the day. It actually makes Superman look very selfish, sitting at his desk at work typing on his computer about problems but not solving them. How does that guy sleep at night, when the extreme suffering in which he could easily put a stop to is constantly ringing in his ears? It's a level of responsibility that would send anyone mad. And yet, Superman sleeps peacefully, knowing that innocent lives he could save are being killed. Let's not bullshit the public, let's give them a proper Superman story, let's give them an Irredeemable movie. See I hate this kindof thinking. The Plutonian and Superman are different but only because of the level of s**t that has happened to the Plutonian rather then Superman. His adopted parents didn't love him. His girlfriend went berserk and ratted him out. Heck the man couldn't even have sex without killing someone whereas Superman has enough control over his powers and abilities to make sweet sweet love to Lois Lane without killing her. (Lana might be in that bag too) Anywho, I think a much more realistic interpretation of the character would be "Greatest American Hero" or "Superior" I don't even have to go that far, Smallville is doing a pretty good job of realistic showing how Superman would operate in our modern world. Heck, in one episode where Lois got Clark's powers she was going crazy listening to everybody's problems and Clark had to talk her down; that's when Lois realized how many quick decision Clark had to make on whether or not to break out the super suit and save someone. Superman has the city's entire emergency plans and response times memorize. Still though, listening to all that would drive someone mad. While I can see how a much more realistic Superman would operate. I don't think I can just sit back and accept an all powerful being, listening to all the woes of humanity without going a little insane. That's a good argument and I agree. I was more focusing on that last part though about hearing all that suffering in the world. It's one if the reasons why I really want to see an Irredeemable movie. It just feels so honest to me. And the psychology behind it really entertained me. I actually think it could be the best superhero movie ever. The other characters are awesome too and I love their character developments throughout the story. Page for page, a movie adaption of Mark Waid's Irredeemable would be so much fun to see. The plot can be pretty dark with it's twists, which blew my mind when I first read it, but it could suit a 12A/PG13 rating whilst having that same effect on movie audiences. What I meant by "Let's not bullshit the public" I meant, let's either have a Superman who can literally never sleep because there's too many people to save, or one who ignores thousands of people dying so that he can sustain a nine to five job. I'm a minority and I'm White. Are you a Ginger Kid? No, but I live in England and most people don't, I'm Caucasian and most people aren't, I'm fairly muscular and most people aren't, I have a job when most people don't, I have at least two meals a day but most people don't. There are many ways anyone can be the minority. In the UK, less than 5% of the public own PS4, which again makes me a minority. On this forum, most people aren't European, but I am, so on here, I'm a minority. You're a minority for having a yellow avatar.  A minority can also be anyone who's not of the legal age. |
|
|
|
Post by wyokid on May 27, 2014 11:32:11 GMT -6
Superman knows and accepts the fact that he can't save everyone. He tries to save everyone he can. I've never read his solo, but Mighty Avengers makes it pretty clear that while his power set may be similar he is not like Superman. Funny, I've read his solo but not Mighty Avengers and they make it pretty clear that he's a Superman-figure that's lost hope in humanity. That alone make him not like Superman. You should read Mighty Avengers. It's awesome. |
|
|
|
Post by jer on May 27, 2014 11:40:43 GMT -6
I hear you, the argument is pretty sound that anyone would go crazy under that pressure and responsibility but Heroes in general aren't just anyone.
most people would probably say "Screw this! Great Power, Great Responsibility. I just want to go back to my ordinary life" And that's my problem with most super hero movies in general. They are your typical average guy and then all of a sudden they get powers and they go "OH WOE IS ME, The burden" and somewhere towards the end they go. Powers! It's good to have. (usually in time to defeat the bad guy)
As a good friend of mine once put it. Movies (in general) start out with the so-called-Deceptively Average Man! And then throughout the movie he displays above average intelligence, above average skills and then before you know it, "WOW! He was never average to begin with!"
Comic Book on the other hand, do a good job of showing us that these really aren't normal people from the jump that even without their powers they will still choose to do extra ordinary things because that's just who they are.
An Irredeemable movie should be rated "R" but Dark Knight showed me you can push a PG-13 rating pretty damn far. I'm all for getting people to see good Comic Book Movies. I just can't wait till Ant-man comes out and blows everybody away with how good it's going to be.
(In the past, I wouldn't have thought twice about an antman movie but Avengers Earth's Mightiest Hero really made me into an Ant-man Fan)
|
|
|
|
Post by Mr_Monster_Munch on May 27, 2014 11:47:09 GMT -6
Superman knows and accepts the fact that he can't save everyone. He tries to save everyone he can. Then why does he sleep long hours at night and work long hours in the day? That's not being fully committed to saving everyone. That's ignoring most of the people who are about to die. Yes, there are reasons why he does it, to support himself and his adopted mother financially, but that doesn't change or excuse the fact that millions die without his aid because there are more important things to him. |
|
|
|
Post by wyokid on May 27, 2014 12:54:36 GMT -6
Metropolis isn't Gotham, crime isn't happening every second there and there are enough heroes all around the globe for him to not have to worry about other places unless it's something major in which he will be there. I just can't wait till Ant-man comes out and blows everybody away with how good it's going to be. (In the past, I wouldn't have thought twice about an antman movie but Avengers Earth's Mightiest Hero really made me into an Ant-man Fan) I was REALLY looking forward to Ant-Man. Like, number one movie on my list. Now with Edgar Wright leaving I don't know what to feel but I'm not feeling excited. Also you REALLY need to read old Stan Lee Ant-Man stories. |
|
|
|
Post by Sage6Paths on May 27, 2014 12:56:02 GMT -6
So I want to get the Blu-Ray of X-Men DOFP when it comes out because it has Magneto's helmet. I'm wondering whether it's full scale or if it is just a miniature version.  |
|
|
|
Post by Mr_Monster_Munch on May 27, 2014 13:11:46 GMT -6
Metropolis isn't Gotham, crime isn't happening every second there and there are enough heroes all around the globe for him to not have to worry about other places unless it's something major in which he will be there. In that case, Superman, Supergirl and Superboy must all take shifts because they're the only heroes on DC Earth with those abilities. But they're mostly busy with their own lives, not feeding the world or stopping ongoing wars. They could change the world, but they don't. |
|
|
|
Post by Mr_Monster_Munch on May 27, 2014 13:44:10 GMT -6
New Honest Trailer So I want to get the Blu-Ray of X-Men DOFP when it comes out because it has Magneto's helmet. I'm wondering whether it's full scale or if it is just a miniature version. It seems you can wear the helmet, according to this website. |
|
|
|
Post by Sage6Paths on May 27, 2014 13:48:12 GMT -6
New Honest Trailer So I want to get the Blu-Ray of X-Men DOFP when it comes out because it has Magneto's helmet. I'm wondering whether it's full scale or if it is just a miniature version. It seems you can wear the helmet, according to this website. Alright sweet. I think I'm willing to put out the dough for this. |
|
